This past week, I ran across a Facebook group entitled, “I’m the boy. You’re the girl. Make me a sandwich, or we don’t talk today.” Save for being slightly amused, I didn’t really take much notice to the group. That is, until I realized the group was drawing a large amount of criticism for allegedly being harmful to society because of its sexist attitude towards women.
Let me first say that I was relatively hesitant to write about my reaction to this, because not doing so carefully could easily give the impression that I condone any sort of sexist or discriminatory tendencies. This could not be further from the truth. In fact, about a month ago, I wrote a column highlighting my disdain for the institutions of sexism and racism in modern society. So now, I will take a moment to stress the fact that I am indeed not a sexist. Not only would I never condone any sort of truly discriminatory activity, but I in fact despise any such activities, sexism included.
However, given all of this, I cannot say I share some people’s outrage at the thought of a man, in good humor, jokingly asking a woman to make him a sandwich. Now, I stress the term “jokingly” because, in this case, that is exactly what we are dealing with: a joke. Even most who might be offended by this sort of thing would most likely agree that in this case, we are dealing with a facetious and humorous statement. Without hesitation, I would find it quite despicable to realistically and actually demote an entire gender group to the social role of caretaker to the other sex, whether it is women or men. But – and maybe this is just me – I simply don’t find outrage in it being done jokingly and in good humor.
Yet, some people might claim that despite the fact that one is obviously dealing with a joke in these circumstances, it’s still an entirely socially harmful and inappropriate statement. For, they argue, most jokes are funny because they are rooted in some sort of social truth. I could not agree more with the latter statement. With some exception, most humor tends to resonate because of the fact that it originates from some social truth, and this case is obviously no exception. Most could agree that it’s a fundamental social truth that our society has a history of female oppression. But, even considering this, I cannot agree that these sorts of jokes are terrible.
As humans, we laugh at the absurd. Laughter itself is a natural reaction to a noted inconsistency. This particular case is no exception, in my opinion. As a society, we pride ourselves on being an advanced, socially progressive people, and yet we look in the rear-view mirror of our history as a species and see some things that are quite contradictory to these values. The ability for women to express themselves in the political sphere is less than one century old. How insane is it that women’s suffrage in America is younger than the invention of the automobile? One would be hard-pressed to find an educated adult that would think it is intelligent, much less socially progressive, to allow or disallow someone to vote based solely on which reproductive organs they happened to be born with.
When I laugh at joke such as the aforementioned uttering of, “make me a sandwich” to a woman, this is the absurdity I am acknowledging. If there were a realistic sentiment of condescension towards females, it wouldn’t continue to be a joke, because no one would laugh at it. In fact, one could argue that these jokes are exactly the opposite of detrimental. Laughing at a hypothetical farce of our own values is absolutely not the same as praising the oppression of females that farce describes. Rather, when we note the inconsistencies of what our values are based on and how we have acted as a society, we are informally socially addressing negative aspects of our culture such as sexism and racism.
Once again, the key here is that these sentiments are recognized by all to be a joke. I am by no way arguing that it would be funny for a man to actually backhand his wife and bark an order at her to prepare him a meal. That would of course be repulsive. It’s repulsive because as a people I think we can all agree that this sort of abusive behavior is completely at odds with how things ideally should be, even though anyone will admit that realistically, in both the past and present, these sorts of things do unfortunately occur. Two centuries ago, there were no “sexist” jokes of this variety, there was only rampant sexism and justified abusive behavior towards females. Now, in a culture that realizes this as something very wrong, we have these sorts of jokes, which, in my opinion, is a subconscious way for our society to come to terms with the absurdities of many of our more injurious social institutions.
As an interesting sidenote, the previously mentioned Facebook group was created in response to one entitled, “I’m the girl. You’re the boy. You text first or we don’t talk today.” The sentiment expressed in the name of the group is just as ridiculous as “women are nature’s delicatessens.” It’s also an admittedly funny joke, because it’s obviously a comment on an absurd expectation regarding the social interaction between males and females in our modern culture. Again, let us note the distinction between a joke and reality. If there were really a situation where a female unquestioningly commanded the line of communication between her and her male friend, I’d find it pretty terrible. But since it’s a joke, I can’t really find it outrageous. Admittedly it’s not hilarious, but it certainly didn’t make me want to write an editorial regarding the unfair practices of the male-female dating scene.
I hope anyone who reads this realizes that of course even jokes should only be uttered in the proper context and with both common sense and tact in mind. Do I think one should run into a League of Women Voters meeting and shout, “Make me a sandwich?” Absolutely not. But as a harmless joke in an informal and personal forum (such as, in this case, a Facebook group), this sort of statement isn’t exactly setting back any civil rights. As previously stated, I’m all for stamping out terrible things like sexism. That being said, I don’t think attacking a harmless joke is the proper and necessary course of action.
Dave Coffey is a Collegian columnist. He can be reached [email protected].
Alex D • Apr 7, 2010 at 11:53 pm
Dave mate well done. You have produced a very solid arguement with excellent research. You have hit the nail on the head, These so callled sexist facebook pages are funny and if read under the right conext and enviroment are very clever. In modern society everyone respectss that woman rights are equal to mens so in knowing this why cant society make jokes about it.
In saying that i found another cracker, “awkardness when a woman doesnt chose the iron in a game of monopoly” haha
Keep up the good work dave
Jean • Mar 31, 2010 at 9:22 pm
First things first, great article.
Now that I have gotten that out of the way, I am going to establish where my argument will be coming from. I am a dramatic arts student, currently being mentored by someone that studied with Sue-Ellen Case, a well-published feminist theorist. My specific focus is theory of comedy. I will not be arguing from a feminist lens, nor should my argument be construed as being anti-feminist or in support of bigoted attitudes.
Given my studies, I am inclined to agree with Dave’s article. While I can sympathize with the idea that sexism is still highly prevalent and that sexist behaviour should not be condoned nor perpetuated, I disagree with the notion that jokes are always going to perpetuate negative behaviour.
The idea that making it unacceptable to speak of something would prevent it altogether is laughable in and of itself. Taboo on conversational subject does not make the actions taken with regard to the subject taboo; only the speaking of it, much the same as with Wicca: devout Christians don’t talk about it, but there are still Wiccans. With this in mind, I submit that sexism should not be made into an unspeakable subject at all. To illustrate this, I suggest research into the Temperance act in the USA, one of feminism’s victories; alcohol was not prohibited by refusing to speak of it, but by actually realizing that it was an issue. My point here is that we need to talk about something in order to fix it.
The next point is with regard to humour specifically. Societal mores make it very common to simply gloss over subjects that we find distasteful as opposed to actually addressing them; laughter is just as easily inclusive as it is exclusive, and the absurdity of certain notions makes them easier to speak of. In this way, jokes get people talking about things so that the suggestion can be made to them that change needs to occur.
Subsequently, it should be presented that humour has a profoundly corrective and conservative nature to it. People laugh at others that are different from what is socially acceptable, and, as a result, aim to correct any behaviour and invite the person to rejoin society proper. A joke with a reference to a past sexist attitude present in the country can be used to poke fun at the idea rather than the sex, and therefore mock the notions. This acknowledges the past failings on the part of society in a way that condones the progress rather than condemning the past. Condemnation of the past only leads to questioning of the current progress rather than a celebration of what strides have been made. As Dave said, Women’s Suffrage is actually younger than the automobile, which was a mistake; but it did happen, and that is worth celebrating.
As a final thought to consider, while sexism still does run rampant in the world, it should be made very clear that sexism does not exist in the form that it once did, and can actually take far more forms. There are many males who are just as subjugated, to include that there are very few academic scholarships in many places for men, whereas there are quite a number that are only for women. While women are paid less than men in some places, there are also many places where it is extremely difficult for a man to get employment to begin with; be it a restaurant, store, or teaching at a school. Even beyond that, contemporary feminism shouldn’t be so binary as to only explore the differences between men and women, especially where some of its proponents fail to consider where men are treated less than equitably, but should also examine the non-binary gender roles present in society. A very dear friend of mine was refused employment twice because s/he refused to identify one way or the other on an application, and was regarded by the owner of the establishment as a freak. Even more than women being subjugated by men, non-binary individuals are subjugated by a society of both men and women.
Thank you for all that read this.
For those that were too lazy to do so, the joke was mocking sexists, not sexes. When last I checked, jokes about sexists, even auto-satirical, were still considered funny.
Margaret • Mar 29, 2010 at 2:38 am
And if you don’t believe me, please follow this link and see for yourself:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=163367&id=375411007270
Funny, yes? Absolutely hysterical.
Margaret • Mar 29, 2010 at 2:36 am
I would love to see these sexist groups disappear. The ones I’ve seen tend to devolve into justifications for spousal abuse, telling women not to vote/be involved in public life/have any thought of her own other than pleasing a man. I have experienced a considerable amount of sexism in my life, and I do not appreciate anyone making a joke about it. There are exceptions, such as making a joke that comments on the absurdity of sexism. I find South Park hilarious for this reason. The bigots end up looking like fools, as it should be.
The facebook pages I’ve seen do not convey that message. A lot of them make light of domestic violence and sexual assault. As a lady who was stalked for six years, is a sexual assault survivor, and has escaped a two year long relationship that was filled with physical violence and death threats, I take this personally. I mean, people are making light of the violent and terrible acts that have had countless terrible effects on my life. And, as if the violent attacks themselves were not bad enough, the people I turned to for support continually told me that it was my fault that these men had committed violence against me. This is a serious problem. Please don’t make light of it.
Alexis • Mar 25, 2010 at 3:20 pm
I also agree wholeheartedly with Jo.
Alexis • Mar 25, 2010 at 3:15 pm
Thanks for replying, Dave.
The joke IS funny. What isn’t funny is that some people don’t see it as a joke. They believe that women genuinely are inferior to men etc.
hilary • Mar 23, 2010 at 8:02 pm
On a side note, I worded this wrong: “But people rank oppressions in order to justify their behaviors, to absolve themselves of both social and personal responsibility; sexism is not taboo and unacceptable yet, and that’s because it still exists”
…I’m not implying that racism does not still exist, just that it’s not as socially acceptable as sexism.
hilary • Mar 23, 2010 at 7:53 pm
Dave, I’m a bit confused by your response. I don’t understand this: “In fact, I would hope you would be considerably MORE outraged at a case where a female is basically allowed to physically abuse her male spouse simply because of gender roles as opposed to a case where a man would merely ask a woman to “make me a sandwich” as a joke between friends.”
I am not in favor of special treatment for women who abuse men, because this is absolutely sexist; obviously the woman who did this should have received an appropriate punishment. Of course this is more outrageous than any sexist Facebook group. However, I take issue with your defense of said Facebook groups as “a joke between friends.” We obviously have fundamentally different beliefs about what constitutes a harmless joke and what serves to perpetuate oppression, and that’s fine; I can only hope you’ll take the time to research statistics about the division of household labor between women and men, and then maybe you can reconsider where the funny part of the joke is, if one exists at all. The statistics- and reality- reflect a very serious disparity between the household responsibilities of the sexes, and this places an added burden on women, therefore impeding their ability to excel elsewhere. Therefore, as a woman, I don’t find the “make me a sandwich” joke funny or defensible, and forgive me if this makes me seem angry and biased. I was angry when I left my comment, hence the “great job Dave Coffey” bit. Given the recent revelation that a confessed rapist roams free on our campus, given the comic in the Collegian that sought to make rape a harmless joke, and given the various sexist Facebook groups, I was, and am, angry. As a man, maybe you can’t understand this anger, but I will not apologize for it. Every single day of my life I hear at least one sexist comment or attitude directed towards women, from major voices in our media to casual discourse across campus, and all this goes relatively unchecked, because women are told it’s a harmless joke and they’re being too sensitive. It’s incredibly arrogant and downright ignorant for someone of the “oppressor class” to feign some understanding of what the “oppressed” endure. That said, I want to go back to what I said about racism, about the fact that you (or anyone) would never dare to write a column defending racist jokes, or at least defending jokes that white people make at the expense of black people. You say: “Oh, by the way, depending on your definition of racist jokes, I agree wholeheartedly: I don’t think I’ve heard one Dave Chappelle punch-line about white people that I didn’t laugh my ass off to.” I wonder, however, if you can defend a joke that comes at the expense of a black person, if you would write a column about how these types of jokes are in good humor, and I stand by my assumption that you, or anyone, would not undertake this endeavor, because you would endure a massive backlash, justifiably. During the 2008 election, there was a popular Facebook group called “Hillary Clinton, Stop Running for President and Make Me a Sandwich.” I made a group in response to this, in which I challenged the creators of this group to make a group called “Barrack Obama, Stop Running for President and Make Me Fried Chicken,” or something similarly racist. No one responded. Why? Because racism is unacceptable, as it should be. But people rank oppressions in order to justify their behaviors, to absolve themselves of both social and personal responsibility; sexism is not taboo and unacceptable yet, and that’s because it still exists. That’s why Don Imus gets fired for his “nappy headed ho” comment, while Rush Limbaugh, who has said he believes women actually want to be sexually assaulted, enjoys his status as the number one radio host in America. Why? Because it’s a joke! Nevermind the fact that one in six women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime, and only six percent of rapists will ever spend a day in jail! Obviously, comparing a sexist Facebook group to rape is a little extreme, but small scale sexism breeds large scale abuse. These jokes make light of serious problems that people actually suffer from, and the fact that women still disproportionately execute the vast majority of household duties speaks to real social truths about our archaic ideas of a woman’s place in society, and these same truths ultimately manifest into greater abuses like rape. And again, until you’ve actually been expected to clean up after a group of people or feed them because of your sex, I don’t expect you to understand. But if you’re as committed to gender equality as you claim to be, I encourage you to try to understand, or at least refrain from claiming your commitment. I feel as though many men feel defensive about this, like they’re being targeted, and that’s why they attempt to justify their sexism as a joke- so they don’t have to admit their prejudices to themselves. A person who is actually committed to gender equality does not have to justify sexism as a joke, because they don’t find the “joke” funny in the first place.
You then go on to say: “In fact, as long as a woman can physically assault a man with a deadly weapon and get off with zero jail time simply because she was born with a vagina (a blatant example of sexism in a court of law), I’m going to go ahead and a) jokingly tell you make me a sandwich and then b) sleep like a friggin’ baby.” What I gather from this is that you’ve justified the sandwich joke with the fact that a woman escaped jail time after beating a man. That’s like a white person justifying a racist joke against a black person with the fact of a black person escaping jail time after beating a white person. It’s blatantly racist, as your comment is sexist. You’re using one incident of injustice to justify a joke that vastly generalizes the entire group of people that the assailant belongs to.
Then you say: “I implore you, next time you’re feeling as mad as you sound in your comments, please e-mail with some “sexist” joke about how much I love sports or apparently can’t “read a book”, or something.” First of all, I have no idea where the sports comment is coming from. I never made any such comment/joke, nor would I. Secondly, the “read a book” comment, while incredibly condescending, was more of a suggestion that you research the existence and manifestations of sexism in our society today before you deem sexism a joke. It was meant literally, and was not meant to speak to your gender.
Sorry to be unclear/ snippy/ condescending in my comments.
Best,
Hilary Gardiner
Dave Coffey • Mar 20, 2010 at 4:09 am
Alex –
Thanks for the read and for your comment, and most of all, thank you for being fair and objective in your assessment, that sort of thing is surprisingly rare here, believe it or not.
I don’t know if it came across differently, but I just wanted to point out that I wasn’t trying to be critical of someone being outraged and passionate about things like sexism and equality in our society. In fact, I think it’s something everybody should be passionate about it, because it’s obviously very important. I just think someone should be passionate as well as reasonable and logical about it. If you want to talk about being “oppressive”, I don’t think it’s the people making the jokes that dictate the social mindsets – I think it’s the people who say, “You can’t say that, that’s offensive”, when in reality, it’s usually only pointing out some sort of social absurdity that they’re merely observing in action elsewhere.
If people in this FaceBook group were blatantly voicing and enforcing REAL sexist tendencies, then those people are 100% wrong, and they’re giving the people making the joke a bad name. But like I said before, I’m aware real sexism exists out there in many terrible forms, one of which, as you mentioned, is the fact that on average, women get paid less than men. While that is a different conversation unto itself, I understand that this is a very real case of sexism, but in what way, shape or form does an obviously absurd joke actually create that sexism? Women don’t get paid less because they’re the butt of cruel jokes: they get paid less because backwards institutions like sexism and racism exist (with or without jokes), and the jokes are made in observation of that absurdity.
I’m not saying that everyone should find funny what I or others think to be funny; rather, I’m just saying people shouldn’t, as you put it, condition people to their way of thinking by condemning certain jokes and their tellers that don’t actually do any harm just because they find them offensive. I don’t care if you find them offensive, that’s obviously your right, but if you’re that easily offended, perhaps staying out of a public forum where many conflicting opinions run rampant, such as FaceBook, would be a good idea.
And I understand it was rather childish to stoop to her level by saying, “GREAT JOB HILARY”, but you have to understand the frustration in trying to construct a relatively articulate argument, and someone who wants to comment back doesn’t even bother to capitalize the first letter of their sentences and then criticizes your intelligence. But, now I’m just making excuses.
Thank you again for your readership.
Jo • Mar 19, 2010 at 1:56 pm
I think the main problem lies in the fact that groups such as this are fine/ inoffensive if the humour is supposed to be self-mocking: an exposure of the absurdity a statement such as ‘make me a sandwich… etc’ implies, in the same manner as programmes such as South Park aim to be funny by being outrageously racist/ sexist hence turning the humour round on itself so you are in fact laughing at how ridiculous the sexism is.
HOWEVER, unfortunately this is not always the case; the humour gets misread and supported by people who are in fact outright sexist.This of course allows such people to think that their sexist opinions are not only agreed with but in fact valid.
Furthermore when people then come back and criticise the group for being sexist, they get accused of overreacting and told to lighten up, when in fact the original humour of the group has been lost and hence encouraged for a number of sexist exchanges to take place.
Consequently, I think the problem lies in the misreading of such groups, or any groups which were not aiming at the type of humour I mentioned earlier, and such cases are worthy of such an outraged reaction.
samuel welsh • Mar 19, 2010 at 1:49 am
thier wrong and you know it
Alex • Mar 17, 2010 at 1:00 pm
I thought those websites were funny until i started reading the comments made by some of the members. They were ignorant, angry and appalling. They genuinely considered women to be the weaker sex and seemed pleased to find such a large community of people agreeing with them. I know that’s not every body in the group, and some people just join because it’s funny because it’s absurd, but some people don’t see it like that.
Also, the New Brunswick case is outrageous, but can you really critise someone else for being passionate about sexism when you are just as outraged about it? I don’t really understand your reasoning there. You seem so blinded by your outrage at the case of male sexism that you have stopped looking at the argument objectively. Imagine how it must feel to be a woman where that sort of thing happens much more often. Yes, it is much better to be a woman now than it was before, but it is still going to take a while to get everything equal.
You know women still get paid less wages, right?
Of course that case is completely unreasonable, as is anything which discriminatory, however if people find a joke offensive, they find a joke offensive. i don’t think that humour works the same if you have to explain the joke. I also think that it is oppressive to people to tell them that they are being uppity about a joke they find offensive. it’s just another way of conditioning people to your way of thinking. you are just applying more pressure to the situation.
“Oh, and, GREAT JOB HILARY!!” this sort of thing detracts from your argument and your validity and weakens your point. it’s not funny it’s just very petty. i know that “she started it” but it would help you a lot more if you appeared reasonable and not driven by anger.
Mr. Bo Jangles • Mar 13, 2010 at 11:06 am
Sexism is a form of prejudice. A facebook group called “Make me a sandwhich, woman” is not sexism because it does not place any limitations on a woman’s ability to join.
What’s with this political correctness? I don’t understand why women need to go to such extremes to make themselves feel important. Go to Northampton and then go to Wall Street and you will see two very different appearances of the same confused impulse to belong to society; Rag-Doll Lesbianism v. The Corporate Harem.
Dave Coffey • Mar 12, 2010 at 2:51 pm
Hilary –
First of all, thank you very much for your readership and feedback.
Second of all, I couldn’t agree more that backwards institutions such as sexism and racism still run rampant in our supposedly progressive modern society. In fact, about a month ago I wrote another column entitled “Time to rock the sexism and racism boat”. Please, by all means, if you have the time, read this article as well, as I would love to hear some additional feedback from someone who is as impassioned about these sorts of issues as you seem to be.
In the aforementioned article, I mention a case of blatant sexism from New Brunswick, Canada in which a judge admitted that a defendant in a domestic abuse case got off with a significantly lighter than normal punishment simply because this particular case involved a woman abusing a man as opposed to the other way around (here is the link to the news story concerning the matter if you’d like to look at it http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.com/search/article/933966).
This particular case is sexism at its worse: this woman beat her husband with a frying pan and stabbed him multiple times right out on the front lawn where his cries of pain could be heard by the entire street. Not only did she receive no jail time whatsoever, she is currently living with the victim once again.
As I said, I completely agree with you: cases of blatant sexism are very much alive and well in today’s society. I certainly hope you are as outraged as this case out of New Brunswick as I was. In fact, I would hope you would be considerably MORE outraged at a case where a female is basically allowed to physically abuse her male spouse simply because of gender roles as opposed to a case where a man would merely ask a woman to “make me a sandwich” as a joke between friends. I clearly stated in my article that these sorts of remarks should ONLY be said as jokes and that there are indeed inappropriate times and settings where they should not be mentioned, as well.
I argued that these sorts of jokes actually call attention to the absurdities apparent in things such as racism and sexism in our culture, but you don’t necessarily have to agree with me on that. Maybe you could make the argument that they don’t necessarily do any good, but I would still make the argument that they don’t actually do any harm. To put it bluntly, a lack of “sexist jokes” most likely would not have prevented a case like the one in New Brunswick. These cases of actual sexism (ones that extend into actual behavior instead of the namesake of a Facebook group) are products of ignorance and incompetence, not harmless and observational humor. So, forgive me if I’m being too frank, but I simply can’t bring myself to be outraged by what you somehow reason to be a sexist joke. In fact, as long as a woman can physically assault a man with a deadly weapon and get off with zero jail time simply because she was born with a vagina (a blatant example of sexism in a court of law), I’m going to go ahead and a) jokingly tell you make me a sandwich and then b) sleep like a friggin’ baby.
Oh, by the way, depending on your definition of racist jokes, I agree wholeheartedly: I don’t think I’ve heard one Dave Chappelle punch-line about white people that I didn’t laugh my ass off to. This might just be some radical, idealistic view, but maybe, just MAYBE, if everyone could manage to joke and laugh a bit more with each other, we probably wouldn’t see as much hate or the ugly byproducts that hate breeds. I implore you, next time you’re feeling as mad as you sound in your comments, please e-mail with some “sexist” joke about how much I love sports or apparently can’t “read a book”, or something.
Thank you very much for reading and responding, both Hilary and Joe Bob.
Oh, and, GREAT JOB HILARY!!
hilary • Mar 12, 2010 at 10:40 am
also, i love that your arguments (if they can be called that) rely on your (inaccurate) assumption that sexism is obsolete. as if people in this facebook group actually view it as a joke, as if these sentiments towards women aren’t still rampant in our culture. read a book.
hilary • Mar 12, 2010 at 10:38 am
great job intellectualizing sexism! why not write a column about how racist jokes are funny? why do i highly doubt you’ll undertake this endeavor? GREAT JOB DAVE COFFEY!!
Joe Bob • Mar 9, 2010 at 2:05 pm
Hipster Oppression, or in this case Hipster Sexism… You know that I know that what I said was funny, because I know that I didn’t mean it. But do I know that you know what I know is what you know…
The notion that we can create humor based on individuals assumptions and awareness is the same kind of thinking that leads to efficiency based stereotyping.
It suppresses conversation and assimilates people into a mindset that this or that is funny. It invalidates people’s rights to be triggered or get upset.
People are obsessed with humor. They want that joke and laugh, they feel entitled to it.
When I weigh humor vs. caring about someone, I don’t think I could ever come out saying I wanted that laugh or that I needed it. Hipster Oppression is that selfishness to define who’s in the in crowd and who can view this as a joke.
We didn’t all agree to have that kind of sense of humor, and if we’re all going to talk together and live together than it makes sense to start building some community. Assumption based humor is an easy way out. It’s the same reason people make jokes about minorities. Sure it’s quick and easy to come up with, but a real joke, one that is based on the complications of life or the nuances that we think about. That’s one that keeps me coming back…
I.E.
Don’t knock masturbation, it’s sex with someone I love. (Ok so maybe that offended some extreme Catholics, but at least they have have the Vatican)