SPRINGFIELD, Mass. – On Oct. 17, NEPM and WGBH cohosted the second and last US Senate debate between Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren, seeking her third term, and Republican nominee John Deaton, a former marine, personal injury attorney and cryptocurrency advocate, in Springfield.

Candidates discussed topics including immigration, abortion, East-West rail and housing, while Deaton accused Warren of a felony and Warren tried to tie Deaton to Trump.

Warren is considered a heavy favorite for a third term, and an Oct. 16 poll released by the UMass Poll gave her with a 22 point advantage. In the same survey, Warren polled better on every issue inquired.

Deaton is attempting to run as a moderate Republican who does not support former President Donald Trump and one who would break with the party on issues like abortion. Warren, however, constantly tried to tie Deaton’s proposals to Trump’s throughout the night.

Warren continued to defend her vote against the failed bipartisan border bill, saying that the bill was dead due to Trump’s involvement by the time.

“We are in a crisis on immigration, but that means we need serious people proposing serious solutions,” Warren said. “We know what we need on immigration reform, but instead what we are doing is blaming the immigrants.”

“I have to say, my opponent, [Deaton] does this over and over again,” Warren continued. “If it is healthcare, blame the immigrants. If it is housing, blame the immigrants. Crime, blame the immigrants. That is not enough to address both the problems and the solutions that we have in this state.”

Deaton pointed to his experience as a Judge Advocate with the Marines in Arizona giving him expertise on the southern border.

“Senator Warren has the same exact position as [Trump]. Do nothing,” Deaton said.  “I’d like to see more. I want to see legal immigration expanded more and have a zero tolerance for illegal immigration.”

Several questions were asked about Western Massachusetts, and both candidates signaled their support for the expansion of East-West passenger rail lines that would expand the rail lines from Boston to Western Massachusetts.

“I am all in on East to West rail,” Warren said. “I think it will fundamentally transform, not just the economy in western mass but for every for every part of Massachusetts”

Warren pointed to her work with Congressman Richard Neal to lay the foundation for planning to begin but said the “significant investment” it would take would not be possible in a Senate controlled by Republicans. 

Deaton connected the issue back to housing. “People are being priced out of the economy … We are now the second most expensive state to live in for working families,” Deaton said. “I see incorporating Western Mass as a way to alleviate that.” 

The candidates also disagreed on the proper approach to fix rising housing costs.

“The Warren plan is a plan to build more housing and bring down costs,” Warren said. “Mr. Deaton’s plan is to say, ‘let the private market fix it,’ like it’s fixed it for the last 40 years.”

“Listen, the fundamental difference between Senator Warren and I is that she believes that the government is the solution to all problems in society,” Deaton said. “… The bottom line is, the government is the problem most of the time.”

Deaton supports reducing red tape and giving tax credits to builders to lower housing costs.

Deaton is a well-known cryptocurrency advocate, and was involved in a lawsuit against the SEC that, in the now appealed initial ruling, could limit the SEC’s ability to regulate cryptocurrency. Many cryptocurrency figures are now backing Deaton in the race.

“I think it’s a problem when any candidate receives 90 percent of the funding for their campaign from one industry, whether it’s the crypto industry, the oil industry, the pharmaceutical industry,” Warren said, referencing the Commonwealth Unity Fund PAC that has received more than double what individual donors have given to Deaton’s campaign.

Warren also said that regulating cryptocurrency could be a way to curb cartel’s ability to conduct transactions.

Deaton, in turn, accused Warren of being corrupt by coordinating before a hearing with Gary Gensler, the chair of the SEC who has been criticized for being perceived as being anti-crypto.

“I prosecuted as a federal prosecutor … suborning perjury cases and I could convict Senator Warren just like that,” Deaton said, snapping for effect.

This allegation has not been confirmed and may have originated from right-wing billionaire David Sacks, who claimed a secret anti-crypto alliance had been established between Warren and Gensler.

“Mr. Deaton is just spinning this whole fantasy story,” Warren said.

Warren introduced the Digital Asset Anti-Money Laundering Act of 2023 last year, an act Deaton previously said was a reason he entered the race.

Deaton also reaffirmed his support for the current abortion law in Massachusetts and placed the blame for the overturning of Roe on Warren.

“Listen, there are six people who are responsible for the overturning of Roe: Donald Trump, Brett Kavanaugh, Amy Coney Barrett; Neil Gorsuch, Harry Reid and Senator Elizabeth Warren,” Deaton said, alleging that Warren’s push to eliminate the filibuster for judicial nominations when Democrats controlled the Senate resulted in anti-abortion justices being appointed when Republicans took control. “Her fingerprints are all over this Roe decision.”

Warren pointed out that Deaton said he would have voted to approve the nomination of Neil Gorsuch, even after Gorsuch authored the lower court decision on Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc. v. Sebelius, which limited contraception access.

“And now John Deaton gives us the big defense of the filibuster,” Warren said. “The filibuster that keeps us from making Roe v. Wade the law of the land … We can’t pass it with 52 votes because the Republicans filibuster us.”

“With Republicans control of the Senate, we will have no bill to codify Roe v. Wade, and that means when they’re coming for us in Massachusetts, we have no defense.”

When asked, Warren said that if she was reelected, she would serve her full term and not take a cabinet post or run for president.

“It’s the six-year term here in Massachusetts that I want to serve,” Warren said. “The reason for that is I have work that I am doing for the people of Massachusetts, and this is my opportunity to get more of it done.”

The debate finished with a series of lightning round questions. Warren said she supported Question 4, which would legalize psychedelics, but said there would need to be a transition period to get it right, while Deaton said he did not support it but would support psychedelic use for medical purposes.

Warren said she will be handing out Mounds and Almond Joy, if she can find it, for Halloween, while Deaton said he would hand out Reese’s Cups “unless I eat them all.”

When asked after the debate what he would say to young voters who feel disillusioned by a state that has largely been politically uncompetitive, Deaton described Massachusetts as a state with “one-party rule,” and said he would tell young conservatives to “not get caught up caught up in the division within the party.”

“We’ve got Republicans who want to kick me out because I’m too independent for them,” Deaton said. “And I think what we need to do to young [people] is say, listen, if you see a candidate that gives you 75 percent of what you like, are you going to focus on the 25 percent that you don’t like, or are you going to focus on the 75 percent that you like?… I think they need to start focusing on what they agree on more than what they disagree on.”

Daniel Frank can be reached at [email protected].